Cristian Cardoner: Minimizing the Sense of Us & Them – Episode 56

Cristian Cardoner: Minimizing the Sense of Us & Them - Episode 56This week, Robert is joined by a special guest Christian Cardoner. It is both heartfelt and moving to hear the journey of Cristian move through the dark night of his soul as he was profoundly touched when spontaneously faced with holding a baby as it died from hunger in his arms. We are in 2022 with more technology and access to information than ever before, yet this episode focuses on alternatives to the fact that there are still more than 500 million people who go to bed every single day with hunger. It can be difficult to sit with such a consuming reality. The cultivation of compassion can enable us to stay with what is uncomfortable and begin to ask ourselves questions that may move us into action. Here are two questions to start with. What do I see as the balance between giving energy and money to my family and the rest of the world that is suffering? What percentage of giving might I want to consider in this next part of my life?

Christian Cardoner worked in banking and finance in his early years. He quit, feeling something inside him was intrinsically lost. At 33 he began to study philosophy, theater, and social anthropology. At the same time, he started to develop several interesting businesses including social impact investing. This type of investing makes the world the priority and profit secondary. It is difficult to put Christian in one zone. He is really a multidimensional individual who has contributed and studied in many different fields. His inclination to social anthropology took him to different places in the world. He found himself focusing on isolated communities,  and through this, found a deep knowledge of what the act of a grounded tangible compassion truly looked like. Compassion cannot be found by way of pity or not even helping, but passion with trying to live with everyone as if they matter.

Mentioned in this episode
Everytable
Acumen
The Global FoodBanking Network
The Global Child Nutrition Foundation
The Global Bridge Foundation

Note: Below, you’ll find timecodes for specific sections of the podcast. To get the most value out of the podcast, I encourage you to listen to the complete episode. However, there are times when you want to skip ahead or repeat a particular section. By clicking on the timecode, you’ll be able to jump to that specific section of the podcast.

Transcript
Announcer: (00:00)
The Missing Conversation, Episode 56.

Cristian Cardoner: (00:04)
She put in my hands, a kid, a three-year-old kid and I didn’t know what to do. And I stood there, um, just paralyzed, and I’m sorry. And 20 minutes later, she came back and she said, uh, don’t worry, thank you very much, give it to me, it’s gone. What do you mean it’s gone? It’s gone, it’s dead.

Announcer: (00:47)
On this podcast, we will propose critical new strategies to address world issues, including homelessness, immigration, amongst several others, and making a connection to how our individual psychology contributes and can help transform the dangers that we face. We will break from traditional thinking, as we look at our challenges from a freer and more independent point of view. Your host, Robert Strock, has had 45 years of experience as a psychotherapist, author, and humanitarian and has developed a unique approach to communication, contemplation and inquiry. Born from working on his own challenges.

Robert Strock: (01:26)
Very warm welcome again, to The Missing Conversation where we address the most pressing issues that the world’s facing today and where we look for the most practical, inspiring programs, innovative ideas, and people to support survival on our planet and find a sense of unity, inspiration, and fulfillment that we and the world badly needs. Today, we have a guest that exemplifies someone who has lived a life that I would definitely say really expresses so much of the essence of a psycho-political life in his relationship to the world and has a very interesting background and has made personal and global changes and choices that expanded dramatically as his life progressed when he had other great options. According to traditional values, that lead me to feel honored to have him on our show today. Cristian Cardoner is 65 years old, married, four children, six grandchildren. He has a university degree in business and a Master’s in Social Anthropology.

Robert Strock: (02:53)
Cristian has worked in banking and finance in his early years, and then being 33 he quit the financial sector and began to study philosophy, theater, social anthropology. And at the same time developed several very interesting businesses, satellite communications, software, agriculture, cinema production, social impact investing. And for those of you who don’t know what social impact investing, it’s where investing makes the world the priority and profit secondary. He’s done this in Chile, Peru, Paraquay, Ecuador, Columbia, the United States, France, and West Africa, just for starters. Nowadays, social impact businesses is making the world the number one priority and making money. Number two, as I said, and it takes the largest portion of Cristian’s active working life. He’s had significant involvement with the following projects that each are making a large contribution to the well-being of the world. They include everytable.com, workgroup.com, groupoanddesat.com, acumen.org, foodbanking.org, and food.ag. These are all organizations that really are leaders in the world in a variety of fields. And as you can see from his introduction, it’s pretty hard to put him into one zone. He’s really a multidimensional individual who’s contributed and studied so many different fields. So, Cristian it’s really, really, truly an honor to have you on the show. And thanks so much for joining us.

Cristian Cardoner: (05:06)
Hello, Rob, the honor is, is mine. Of course. I’m a bit overwhelmed by your description. Uh, maybe’s too generous, but anyway, the honor is mine sharing with you this moment.

Robert Strock: (05:21)
Yeah. Thanks again. It’s it’s so in sync with you, the way you receive and the way you give at the same time. So I’d like to start off with just giving a brief description of psycho-politics, because it’s one of the underpinnings and we’re really picking people that are really going for it in the world to do what they can. So, psycho-politics really has three stages or steps or principles. And the first one is recognizing how natural it is to want to love yourself and your family, and to put your primary energy into that love, into them. And even that is a big deal. However, when we look at global warming and we look at the nuclear dangers that we’re facing and all the social inequities that are going on in hunger, lack of housing, lack of medical care, all of that, that when we recognize that we’re in the 21st century, psycho-politics is asking us to say, okay, yes, we wanna love our family,

Robert Strock: (06:39)
yes, we wanna put our energy into our family, but doesn’t it make sense to give a greater percentage to those that are hungry, those that don’t have housing, and our planet that is showing signs of being mortally wounded and imperiled? So, the first step is putting our energy and looking at giving a greater percentage to the world and to those that are starving in our destitute in the world. The second step of psycho-politics is the same thing, except that it relates to money. And doesn’t it make sense of course, to wanna take care of our family, those we love and leave our money or use our money to take care of them. But doesn’t it make sense to give a larger percentage of that to a world that’s imperiled, that’s our home, our big home, and to the people that are most suffering in the world.

Robert Strock: (07:36)
And then the third step of psycho-politics is asking ourselves the question, very individual question. What do I see as the balance between giving energy and money to my family? And what’s the balance with giving to the rest of the world and the people that are suffering in the world and asking that question for the rest of our lives and having it, not just be an intellectual question, but being an existential question that is really looking at your life situation. So, that’s the essence of psycho-politics. So Cristian, what were you raised to most believe in? And could you give us a feel for the values and attitudes you faced in growing up and what kind of kid were you and were you a rebellious kid? Were you a good, a good kid in performing to be good? Were you part of the crowd, and give us a sense of who you were and how you grew up?

Cristian Cardoner: (08:45)
All right. I, I grew up in a little town–meaning to differentiate it from a big city–and a little town in Argentina that has a particular social characteristic, which is, uh, there is no social differences. You, as a kid, play with the mayor’s son and with the last beggar together in the same team, you play the same games and you share the same things without any conscience of, uh, belonging or differences. So, I think this is really, really a big difference for a kid. And it was for me. I, I went to the big city at 14 years old. So, I was kind of an Indian in Buenos Aires, not knowing how everything worked. So, but as a kid, going back to the kid, uh, I was a kid with quite a lot of pressure to succeed, to perform well.

Cristian Cardoner: (09:53)
I wasn’t a leader at all, I was a follower. Always, uh, trying to belong to the crowd, to do what they do. Um, but from, from my mom, I had, um, an incredible pressure that almost killed me actually, to be the best, to, to have success, my goodness, what the concept to have social success, economic success, and I took it as a mission. Like if I was, uh, if I liked it, I believed myself that’s what I like. So, as I said, I was raised in that environment, uh, with that pressure and those things in an environment when there was no difference whatsoever. And at 14 years old, I was put into a big city. You could imagine like LA or any big cities in the world, Buenos Aires–a 12 million people city with everything, very European, and so there was this kid, this 14 years old kid, like, uh, you know, uh, native from from the interior of the country, not understanding anything and having to learn everything in order then to success socially and economically as I was meant to be.

Robert Strock: (11:34)
Great.

Cristian Cardoner: (11:35)
So it wasn’t really a happy environment, I have to say.

Robert Strock: (11:38)
yes. In, in my terms, and I speak very loosely, so I don’t mean this in a clinical way. So, it means to me that your subconscious was very schizophrenic, you know, was very, it’s like on the one hand you’re driven towards success, on the other hand, you’re just merging with everyone as if we’re all the same.

Speaker 2: (11:56)
Absolutely schizophrenic that’s the word. Absolutely. When I learned that word later on, I said, that’s me.

Robert Strock: (12:08)
So, that’s actually an advantage from those of us in America where we rarely, I mean never have I heard other than indigenous tribes was there that kind of unity, where the, the chiefs, uh, in the country were merging with people that were poor. And so yeah, in that way, your early background, I envy, uh, I feel like that’s such an advantage to have, have a taste of that. Yeah. But then to have almost like a rape on that innocence and on that unity to be driven towards success, and that’s right in the heartbeat of psycho-politics, and especially how you turned it around. So, I’m wondering if you had a connection between any kind of deep loss or death, or really give us a sense of what awakened you to move in a new life direction.

Cristian Cardoner: (13:14)
Yeah, of course there was a thing, a very precise moment. I wasn’t, um, social prone, I wasn’t social oriented at all, I was a beast, uh, a financial beast with a mission and I thought that was the thing. And I was, uh, you know, the, the wealth of war was it just like that with all the pathetic characteristics, uh, of those kind of, uh, guys in those years, you know, uh, everything, not a single one missing, uh, the superficiality, the, the frivous type, you know, money, money, money, uh, things, prestige, everything. Here, you have mom, I, I did it.

Robert Strock: (14:08)
Laughs.

Cristian Cardoner: (14:08)
You know, it’s very, very sad. Uh, and then as you mentioned, I, I quit the financial sector because I felt something was out of place. I was too young and I’m not, uh, ashamed to say, too rich. Uh, and what is this? I’m a banker, 33, that’s something wrong here. So, not knowing really well what to do I, I quit, I sold everything and I began kind of a new life. It wasn’t a new life, looking in perspective now, because I did the same thing with a different suit. You know, more regional, more, uh, fashion-like, oh, what a Bohemian guy. So I still, my ego was like clenching myself like crazy. Uh, but thankfully, uh, my inclination to social anthropology, uh, took me to different places in the world. I studied, all my papers were, um, in studying or writing about, um, isolated people in the world.

Cristian Cardoner: (15:31)
So, uh, I was obsessed with the effect of lack of civilization in people in the world. And so, I began to travel to places where hard to get and really isolated in the world. And of course, out of all the world, it came Africa and I fell in love with Africa, in the moment, and I was, um, I was doing a paper on the gorillas of the silverback gorillas in the, uh, border of Rwanda and Uganda, and some young type of people who were working in, uh, in NGO, uh, at the border of, Uganda and South Sudan. So I, I really love to speak Italian, so I began to talk to them a lot and they, they told me, we are working in a refugee camp there. If you wanna come, you’ll be welcome. And I say, whoa, let’s, let’s see what it is.

Cristian Cardoner: (16:30)
Uh, they, they go there and I, I went there four days later. I arrived in there and it was like, um, it looked like a hospital. You remember MASH series?

Robert Strock: (16:40)
Mm-hmm sure, sure.

Cristian Cardoner: (16:41)
A little good.

Robert Strock: (16:42)
Love it.

Cristian Cardoner: (16:43)
It was just, just like that. I enter a big quite tent with people, screaming and running, um, back and forth, blood everywhere, people on the floor, uh, you know, a complete mess, a crazy thing. As I said, I, I hadn’t had at that moment, not a single contact with social aid or nothing. Uh, and I was standing at the front door, uh, trying to look for my friends, who I never met by the way. Uh, and a nurse, a black nurse came to me and said, could you hold this for me please? And she put in my hands, um, a kid, a three-year-old kid, and I didn’t know what to do.

Cristian Cardoner: (17:37)
And I stood there, um, just paralyzed–and I’m sorry–and 20 minutes later, she came back and she said, uh, don’t worry, thank you very much, give it to me it’s done. What you mean, it’s done. It’s gone, it’s dead. What? It was like, you know, a slam on my face. It was incredible. And she said, don’t worry, don’t worry. Just take a seat over there I’ll be back and I’ll explain to you. So I sat in a little bench there, completely paralyzed, completely confused. And she came back to me 10 minutes later, she sat with me and explain to me in the same way, I can explain you how to build this cell phone, just like that, how a person dies out of hunger.

Cristian Cardoner: (18:50)
I mean, no illness whatsoever, just the lack of food. Um, she explained to me that in the last 36 hours, the body reverses and this and that, and then you cannot do any help at all at the, the last moments just accompany him to death. So, that’s why I was busy with other things, I’m so sorry I gave it to you. And she pat me in my head and she went away like, okay, let’s do business. And I sat there for three hours crying nonstop, and I was planning to take a plane five days, four or five days later to Buenos Aires, to Argentina. So all the way back. Uh, but I couldn’t come back. So, I went to a little hostel in the border of Uganda and South Sudan, and I stayed there enclosed for three days, eating barely, sleeping, and crying.

Cristian Cardoner: (20:01)
And I came back to Argentina in a complete confusion, not knowing anything at all, uh, about life. I mean nothing. What’s wrong, what’s good, what to do, what am I doing, what I’m gonna do? It was terrifying, really terrifying.

Robert Strock: (20:23)
Mm-hmm .

Cristian Cardoner: (20:25)
And they the way out of that was really, really a long way, and a painful way. So, I kind of crawl out of that–and to make a summary–after some time I, I got into the GCNF, Global Child Nutrition Foundation. I began working there with an incredible woman, Jean White, who’s still there. I think she is now like 94, still fighting and working like crazy. I would have married her, of course, incredible.

Cristian Cardoner: (21:07)
And from that, I began to get the feeling and get accustomed to social organizations and to travel and to know more about that world and then jump to the Global Food Banking. And I, I go, went to work in Buenos Aires and then in Chicago for the Global Food Banking, um, organization. And I, I was a member of the board for many years with them and the honorary board now. Uh, and then one day I said pfffffff–came Buddhism into my life. I was invited to a pilgrimage, out of the blue, not for religion or thought just because I was a traveler. He’s the one who invited me said, and I met Brent Kessel there, who, you know, very well. If you want, you can explain who he is. . And then through him, I met you another present in life. And Brent introduced me to Acumen and Acumen introduced me to the impact investing, and then Africa, and then US, and then this and that, and that, and now it’s my whole life.

Robert Strock: (22:28)
Yeah. I, I just wanna say the way that you have shared moving to your heart, moving to your tears, moving to your grief of seeing and experiencing and holding life and death. And seeing that turning point is so profound, because almost all of us are in such denial, not only of our own deaths, but of tens of thousands of people that are dying, everyday, kids.

Cristian Cardoner: (23:03)
Yeah.

Robert Strock: (23:04)
And when we have that impact, we have a chance. I’m not saying that everyone’s going to be touched like you are, but it is so crucial at this time. I feel the essence of your story is, I hope, the human story because we’re facing life and death right now in so many different ways as our, our brothers and sisters that are less fortunate than us. And I wanna just mention at this moment that our engineer Mark Spiro is also in the state of facing a potentially very serious illness and has chosen to come and join us in that same spirit of facing our mortality and still moving forward and bringing our heart to our life.

Robert Strock: (24:00)
And I don’t think I could possibly ask for anyone to convey in, in the heartful way, the way you have more articulately, and what you apologized for is what you should be most proud of, which is the dropping into your heart. And I, I really, really appreciate that. So I’d like to ask you, what would you say the main message, just briefly, maybe just take a minute. If you took from your life experience, what would be your main message that you would want to put out to, our fellow brothers and sisters about just what you see is important,

Cristian Cardoner: (24:46)
Uh, in your kind words Rob uh, I read some things you wrote and you in the moment said something like minimizing the sense of us and them. Uh, and when I read that, I think I thought it came to me just one word, which is “compassion.” And compassion, not in the way of pity or not even helping, but passion with trying to live with everyone in what the whole concept really means. Uh, yeah.

Robert Strock: (25:41)
That’s beautifully said, I, I feel honored that you, the way you describe and it’s beyond me, obviously, the way you described not helping, but passion and being with. And there really is, if you pause for a moment, the sense of are we with, or are we in a tunnel?

Cristian Cardoner: (26:05)
Yeah, yeah.

Robert Strock: (26:07)
And how much can we move out of our tunnel, and not out of guilt?

Cristian Cardoner: (26:13)
Absolutely

Robert Strock: (26:14)
Not out of guilt, but because we can see that for those that are listening, very likely are not coming from a background or a present state where they’re food insecure or housing insecure. And so, we at least have a livelihood that we’re probably okay. That gives us a chance to at least give an energy some possibility, and for those of us that are more fortunate, possibly could hear the spirit of what you’re sharing and, what we’re really attempting to share today.

Cristian Cardoner: (26:52)
Yeah, absolutely. Well, uh guilt is a big thing in this world and in this field of philanthropy and everything, and, you know, uh, guilt is very easy to solve, just giving and that’s it. I clean my hands and go to another subject, which is completely different from compassion.

Robert Strock: (27:15)
Yeah. Yeah. That being with, in the sense of, all of you that are hearing this, not out of guilt, but the sense of being with everything that’s here on the earth, and is there a natural place that touches. And that’s just a question. It’s, it’s not a demand, it’s not a pressure, it’s a gift. It’s, it’s like when I told you about Mark and what he’s going through, your quick response was, it was a gift.

Cristian Cardoner: (27:52)
Yeah.

Robert Strock: (27:52)
You know, it wasn’t like you had to be nice to Mark. You, you just naturally absorbed him in the human family, kind of like your early upbringing where we’re all, we’re all the same.

Cristian Cardoner: (28:05)
Yeah. You, you know, with the risk of, um, missing the point, I’m seeing at this very moment, the encounter with Mark, uh, kind of, uh, similar thing as my encounter with that kid in Uganda.

Robert Strock: (28:24)
Yeah, yeah, exactly. Exactly.

Cristian Cardoner: (28:29)
It’s a gift, a real gift.

Mark Spiro: (28:31)
Just quickly. And, and let me say, thank you so much for this feeling and then this outpouring towards me. I really love you guys. Thank you. Um, it’s, it’s like we, we shared in two episodes ago–again, and I don’t wanna go to the pas–with Ken Druck and excuse the language, but, but it was, are you fucked? I’m not fucked. Meaning I can be with that. I can be with being fucked, or I can be with death, if, if I need to be with it. And, and, not have this denial and, and put everything in boxes, but be able to do that. And that’s, to me, you know, what I would strive for, especially in the middle of what I’m going through, which doesn’t have a lot of good outs. Um, is to be with that and be okay feeling those feelings.

Robert Strock: (29:25)
Yeah. And I, I think that,

Cristian Cardoner: (29:27)
Yeah. Um, and that’s the perfect evidence of why it’s a gift for me.

Robert Strock: (29:35)
Exactly. So, we’re joining in the awareness of impermanence or life being short, or all of us are gonna die, and many of us are dying out of our awareness. And in a certain way, you could say the same thing about the current times of those of us that are watching the videos in Ukraine and seeing such unbelievably innocent people dying. And hopefully, that is a unitive force that in a way, paradoxically Putin has united so much of the world. Finally, Republicans and Democrats are close to the same page, and the world is closer to the same page that, oh my God, we’re gonna have to do something to try to survive in this world because otherwise Putin or Putin-like characters are gonna use this nuclear threat as an endless death danger for all of us that will lead to our deaths, unless we pay attention. So this is like COVID, it’s another warning that we’re interconnected and that we need to see what percentage, and I use the word percentage, cuz I don’t want anyone to feel that what’s being established is a set goal for anybody. We all need to do our own inquiry to tune in to what that really is.

Robert Strock: (31:12)
And I was going to say as one of the things I wanted to add to the show, but in a way it’s already been really, almost explicitly spoken to, which is any of us could have been born in circumstances where we’d be homeless. Any of us could have been born in circumstances to be that child that you were holding. None of us are smart enough, wise enough to be able to avoid the fortune or lack of fortune of where we’re born. And the more we can identify with everyone as our brothers and our sisters, not in some kind of airy fairy abstraction.

Cristian Cardoner: (31:54)
Yeah.

Robert Strock: (31:54)
Not that, but really taking the world into our home and then taking our home into the world.

Cristian Cardoner: (32:04)
Yeah, absolutely. Uh, and our home, the world is our home and our home is about to be on fire and uh, we need a critical chain of mindset. Seriously need that, uh, for once and then trying to understand, well, it took me years to understand what kind of injustice hunger is.

Robert Strock: (32:31)
Yes, yes.

Cristian Cardoner: (32:32)
We are in 2022 with lots of things and technical things and uh, satellites and everything. And there are 500 million people who go to bed every fucking single day with hunger.

Robert Strock: (32:52)
Yeah.

Cristian Cardoner: (32:53)
It is a failure as a human race for me.

Robert Strock: (32:57)
Yes. Yes. And, and has been forever. There’s never been, you know, one of the things that I’ve noted, there’s never been a powerful country that’s made it a priority.

Cristian Cardoner: (33:09)
Yeah.

Robert Strock: (33:09)
To take care of their own poor and really give opportunities. I don’t mean giveaways. I mean, dignity, giving an opportunity to work. That’s all it would’ve taken. That’s all it will take right now. And if there’s one thing we can take from this, it is to reach out to all those that are in very destitute situations and give them opportunities. They are almost inevitably a better bet to be motivated from a sane place to take care of their own survival. They don’t need our gifts. They need us to give opportunities

Cristian Cardoner: (33:45)
For sure.

Robert Strock: (33:46)
I, I know you, you were gonna mention something about our, our exchange in your way.

Cristian Cardoner: (33:52)
Thank you so much. My encounter with this guy, Mr. Roberts Strock, who is the stepfather of a close friend of mine. I was in one of my, uh, most, uh, or the last misery days I was in misery. My life was really, really in pain. I wanted to die. The only thing I thought. and he knows very well, that was please when I, I am going to die because it’s the only thing I need. And during those really dark days, I meet Robert for a video talk and we just, we took like two, three hours talking. He was so generous with his time because he barely knew me. And it was the first drop of water, in the middle of a big desert, that I drunk at that moment. And I never, ever gonna stop to thank him for that until the last minute of my life.

Robert Strock: (35:03)
Mm, thank you so much. And I just want to put a little bit of a flavor, uh, because it’s so indicative of what so many of us are going through that have some kind of wealth, just as a message in case somebody who’s listening is going through something like that, which is when we have wealth and then we get free and we’re in the state of generosity or more accurately, as you would say, in love with loving or compassion. And then suddenly we have this incredible loss of our resources. That’s a big chunk, which is what a big source of your misery was. And then losing perspective temporarily that you failed, you know, the early conditioning of your mother, it’s like your mother would be horrified and, and then seeing your heart and your beauty and your resiliency, it was so easy because your heart was so ripe.

Robert Strock: (36:14)
You were such a lover amid saying, all this left is to want to die. And then the realization was so not difficult because your heart was waiting to come back. And so for people who are in a place of natural giving, and then you have this terrible loss, it might be an illness, it might be a loss of your wife, or maybe God forbid one of your children, or a big chunk of your money. And being able to gather back what is the purpose of my life? What matters, what matters am I still capable of it? And you qualify as the fastest turnaround.

Cristian Cardoner: (36:59)
Laughs.

Robert Strock: (37:01)
That I, that I’ve ever experienced from going from one end to having the deep humility, to being able to come back to your heart source so beautifully. So it, as you would say, the gift, the gift was simultaneous, the giver and the giver and the receiver absolutely were not separate. So I’m very, very grateful for your easy receptivity that amidst truly the sufferer.

Cristian Cardoner: (37:34)
Yeah. Yeah. I remember very well that moment I was crying the whole two hours in the row . Anyway, it’s good to see, to look at that, as we are now.

Robert Strock: (37:52)
Yeah. And it may very well help others as they see that this, this is an inevitable part of people that choose to go in this direction and then you get hit sideways by life.

Cristian Cardoner: (38:05)
Absolutely.

Robert Strock: (38:06)
And then you can lose the direction you’ve been going on for a while, or you can find it again and maybe, maybe even–maybe not as fast as you–but . . .

Cristian Cardoner: (38:15)

Robert Strock: (38:16)
But you can find it.

Cristian Cardoner: (38:17)
So, as I said, thankful forever.

Robert Strock: (38:24)
And likewise.

Cristian Cardoner: (38:26)
Okay. So to, just to, um, answer your last question of giving message, maybe it’s a bit too much for me giving message I’m not a messenger, but . . .

Robert Strock: (38:42)

Cristian Cardoner: (38:44)
But as I thought, what could I say to you? Um, I wrote down three or four phrases and it says here don’t take anything for granted, never search for peace, not for success. Appreciate compassion as a very important asset for yourself, not as a virtue or as an act of generosity. Beware of your ego, but don’t fight against it, he’ll always win.

Robert Strock: (39:21)
Beautiful. The only clarity I would add to that exquisite, life-long contemplation, cuz I know you mean it in a subtle distinction, which is search for peace and let success be secondary.

Cristian Cardoner: (39:38)
Yeah.

Robert Strock: (39:39)
Cause it’s not, it’s not anti-success, it’s it? Success is fine.

Cristian Cardoner: (39:42)
Absolutely. Yeah.

Speaker 4: (39:44)
As a matter of fact, paradoxically, this is the time where I want more money, more success than ever before because of the joy of being able to pass it through.

Cristian Cardoner: (39:58)
Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. You did it. You said it. Yeah. Perfect.

Robert Strock: (40:04)
We’re so in sync, relative to compassion not being an act of generosity but being fulfilled, being gifted with inspiration. And if there’s one central message, that would be one, but everything you just said, I can only underscore as being a life path, none of us are gonna get it all.

Cristian Cardoner: (40:33)

Robert Strock: (40:33)
As, as, as I’ve talked about maybe a little bit more of a percentage here, maybe a little bit more of a percentage there. And all I can say Cristian is you are, you are truly a joy and, and your heart is, uh, all over this. And I thank you so much for joining us.

Cristian Cardoner: (40:52)
Oh, the pleasure is mine, I’m so grateful and thankful, uh, to you and to Mark, of course, because this hour is a gem in my backpack of life.

Mark Spiro: (41:08)
Mine too. Thank you. Thank you so much.

Robert Strock PhoitoJoin The Conversation
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